Iv read about this loading the rings method.
Goes completely against what Dad (and mechanics) taught me.
If its a proven method then I will some day open throttle 100% in 1st or 2nd gear. I hope my strong compression is not lost or lessened.
--- In Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com, gandalf@... wrote:
>
> I actually believe that engines that are stressed during break in will perform better and last longer than otherwise. The best is to break it in on a dyno machine. The first hundred miles are critical and you want hard acceleration alternated with coasting. Country road is probably the best idea. The stress wears in the rings creating a solid seal. Without the stress the rings may never properly seal. Most motorcycle manufactures run each bike at top speed for several minutes as one of the last steps off the assembly line.
>
> Apparently the whole breaking in gently thing is all about lawyers and not driving a vehicle your not used very hard.
>
> (imagine a cute or dirty tagline here)
>
> On Fri 05/08/11 8:00 AM , Charles Schlosshan cayman2653@... sent:
> > Hi A,
> > I most certainly will. I have about 40 miles on the new piston/rings
> > and head now and will wait until about 100 miles before I open it up.Â
> > Honda says to break it in for 600 miles but I may never ride it that
> > much. The traffic is so bad here in Myrtle Beach with all the
> > vacationers that it is dangerous to go out with a small bike. It is
> > best to ride something with enough horse power to pull away from
> > traffic. My riding is mostly around the neighbor hood with short
> > rides to Walmart and the gas station when traffic is low. The bike
> > does have more torque, by seat of the pants feel, then it did before.Â
> > I can come to a full stop from 30mph and it immediately comes to a slow
> > smooth idle. I did run it up to 35mph once and it felt like it will
> > easily run faster but I will wait a bit more before trying. I am
> > satisfied with the repairs so far. There was a fellow who was having trouble with the dratv quick fix head
> > yesterday, I was away from my computer and can't reply to the forum site
> > from my phone. Anyway he said there was tapping from the head and the
> > head was getting hot. The quick fix head comes assembled but none of
> > the bolts are tight nor are the valve tappets adjusted. I wonder if
> > he did that before running the engine. The head requires its own
> > piston, comes with it, also. Just a thought before he buys another
> > head. I have an original Honda C70 head that could be fixed.Â
> > The local Honda shop wanted more to fix it then the quick fix head
> > costs.Take care A and thanks for your help; will post and update soon.
> >
> > From: A 66@...>To: Hon
> > da-C70@...: Friday, August 5, 2011 2:39 AM
> > Subject: [Honda-C70] Re: Top Speed Issue
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> > Charles, do let us know when all problems are solved.
> >
> > --- In Hon
> > da-C70@yahoogroups.com, Chris Bader wrote:>
> > > Hi Charles,
> > >
> > > Yikes, it boggles the mind how simple oil
> > changes are not routine for everyone.>
> > >
> > > I know what you mean about the chain case being
> > difficult when damaged - last summer my swingarm front bolt came loose and
> > it resulted in a mangled chain case. Trying to put on a new
> > chain case a couple of months ago just did not work and I found that it had
> > a broken off the lower bolt mounting tab. I'm going to replace
> > the swingarm so the chain case can be used again.>
> > >
> > > It's great to hear that your new engine runs so
> > well!>
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Charles Schlosshan
> > > To: "Hon
> > da-C70@yahoogroups.com" da-C70@yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:38 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Honda-C70] Re: Top Speed
> > Issue>
> > >
> > > ÂÂ
> > > Hi Chris,
> > > To answer your questions, I rebuilt the lower
> > end because the engine oil had burnt onto the insides of the cases, gears,
> > oil screen, et al from the engine over heating in the past. I
> > found the problem when I tried to drain the engine oil for a oil change
> > right after we got the bike. I don't think the previous owner
> > had ever changed the oil. No oil would come out of the drain
> > hole at all. I know there was oil in the engine because it was
> > very black on the dip stick. Removed the left side cover and
> > found the oil screen and its cavity completely full on crystalized oil in
> > flat sheets and nuggets both. This was part of the problem
> > with the engine over heating plus rust in the fuel system and numerous air
> > leaks in the carb and intake. The oil was burnt on the cases
> > so bad it took over 5 hours to clean them after I got the engine
> > apart. Believe me there were plenty of bad words spoken that
> > day along with a few for the idiotwho invented the
> > > super soft phillips head screws Honda
> > loves. Most were replaced with socket head cap screws during
> > reassembly. As for the chain guard, I have had it off a few
> > times in the last few months and seem to have trouble getting it lined up
> > right with the bottom half. It got a little bent when the
> > chain broke and that makes it a little harder then normal to fit back
> > together. Just for future info, its four bolts and the left
> > side shock absorber bolt that have to come out to remove the top
> > half.> We did not have the bike new, my wifes uncle
> > bought it new and rode it with no maintenace until it would not run any
> > more. She got it when her uncle passed away and it set for 10
> > years before I came along and decided to make it run again.ÂÂ
> > Making it run was easy, making it run right is not. The engine
> > is running very smooth and steady now, sounds like a new sewing machine
> > running at 30 mph. Have not tried to go faster yet, want to
> > put a few more miles on it before I try WOT again. The new
> > head came with a new piston and a note saying the valves will only clear
> > with this piston and no other. I will put another 40 miles or
> > so on it then try for top speed. The exhaust valve was bent on
> > the old head from down shifting once a little to soon. New
> > head was cheaper then having the old one machined and parts
> > replaced. Baby Huey lead me in path to finding the bent valve
> > and how to ckeck it off the engine. Just looking atthe valve it appeared to
> > > be touching the valve seat all the way around
> > but it was not. Filling the head with water, spark plug
> > installed, found the leak. There was a small dimple in the
> > piston also upon close inspection. Live and learn I
> > guess. Make sure the speedo is down to the second gear range
> > before you down shift.> Thanks for your response,
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > > From: Chris Bader
> > > To: "Hon
> > da-C70@yahoogroups.com" da-C70@yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Honda-C70] Re: Top Speed
> > Issue>
> > > ÂÂ
> > >
> > > Hi Charles,
> > >
> > > I will not even guess as to why you are having
> > this issue as there are many more qualified experts in the group to give
> > advice.>
> > > One item I don't remember you letting us know is
> > why you did the lower end rebuild and did you have the passport prior to
> > rebuild with better top end speed on original engine? By the
> > way, you mentioned that the chain guard is not your favorite item, does
> > that mean you have not taken that off to inspect? I'd much
> > rather remove 4 bolts on the chain guard than does a piston rebuild in
> > terms of mechanical complexity.>
> > > It's kind of off-subject but it circles around
> > to the passport, this wonderful group as a resource and a major
> > rebuild.>
> > > I've done a fairly substantial amount of work on
> > my 98' Subaru Outback in the past year because of an overheating
> > issue.> Originally thought it was a water pump and so I
> > flew my mechanic friends from Houston up here last year. We
> > changed timing belt,> water pump, and replaced heater core because it
> > went out sitting in driveway. Ran fine after that but still
> > overheated. Found out it could only be> head gaskets so had heads rebuilt, changed
> > gaskets and put it back together and could not get it to
> > start. Might be off a tooth? Compression reads
> > fine. I have subsequently gone through/replaced entire fuel
> > supply system, coil, and everything else you could possibly
> > imagine. Then last winter it straight up would not turn over
> > after getting weaker by the day (dash lights eventually would not light
> > even with new battery. Replaced entire ignition system since,
> > no change. Today getting to last couple of items, replaced
> > starter relay and it FINALLY turned over after six or seven
> > months. Then nothing, seemed to sap the life out of the
> > battery. So I've obviously got some electrical
> > problem. I needed a win before finally deciding to tow it into
> > the dealer because this is beyond my tools and experience. (p.s. I'm not
> > looking for advice on my car, way beyond that in terms of my sanity after
> > all this time and effort : )>
> > > The point of my post is to say that I love my
> > passport because even with my limited mechanical experience it is fairly
> > straightforward> and I've rebuilt/replaced every part (besides my
> > wonderful reliable engine), gone through and traced every wire, tested
> > every electrical component, and connection. It is very
> > satisfying to have "wins" with my 30 year old passport and even
> > with issues now and again (mostly my fault), I can handle them with the
> > advice of our group. I signed up for a similar yahoo group for
> > my Subaru and that was a bust, 2 reply's was all I received in last
> > year.>
> > > This group has a wealth of information and
> > everyone is so helpful so I'm sure that with more details and
> > troubleshooting you >
> > > will get your issue sorted out.
> > >
> > > Thanks again to everyone in the group, look
> > forward to riding my passport next week after getting the tube replaced on
> > my >
> > > flat tire. Back in
> > business!>
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Charles Schlosshan
> > > To: "Hon
> > da-C70@yahoogroups.com" da-C70@yahoogroups.com>> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 10:55
> > AM> Subject: Re: [Honda-C70] Re: Top Speed
> > Issue>
> > > ÂÂ
> > > John, A, Mike, Myron and a score of others how
> > offered help with my Top Speed Issue. I have installed the new
> > head and the new piston/rings that came with it and the new
> > muffler. Muffler really looks good compared to the rusty one
> > it replaced and I can feel exhaust coming out at idle
> > now. >  Here is the set up data:
> > > 1. Cam timing set on the T mark
> > with the O on the cam aligned with the mark on the head.> 2. New points and condenser installed; point gap
> > is 0.012".  > 3. New spark plug installed and
> > gapped to 0.025". > 4. Ignition timing set after points
> > were gapped to the F mark via the static method. > 5. Throttle cable adjusted to 5mm
> > free play as best I could tell. > 6. Valve tappets set to 0.002"
> > clearance.> 7. Rear tire inflated to 40psi;
> > front to 35psi.> ÂÂ
> > > First ride; bike was a little hard to start but
> > ran fine after carb filled up with gas. Leg shield was not
> > installed but air cleaner (new) was in place and secured with one
> > nut. Bike over heated in about 2 miles. Limped
> > home and let the bike cool. Checked oil level and it was just
> > a little below full mark; added oil until it was full.ÂÂ
> > Installed leg shield and cover for air cleaner and let the bike cool
> > down. Rode again for about 10 miles with no over
> > heating. The engine feels like it has a lot more torque but
> > does not rev up as fast as it used to. I did not attempt to
> > run at top speed being the piston and rings are new. The bike
> > will run right up to 30mph but it sounds like it is really running
> > fast. Removing the chain guard is my least favorite chore but
> > I will do it tomorrow morning and count the teeth on the rear sproket;
> > front sproket is a 15 tooth. Coming to stop signs the engine
> > will idle smoothly andvery slow with no
> > > hesitation or bogging when
> > accellerating. It does not accellerate as fast as it did
> > before.> ÂÂ
> > > Question: How many miles should I
> > wait before checking top speed?  What could be
> > causing the slower accelleration?>
> > > From: John
> > > To: Hon
> > da-C70@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:34
> > PM> Subject: [Honda-C70] Re: Top Speed
> > Issue>
> > > ÂÂ
> > >
> > > Charles,
> > >
> > > I believe I remember you checking your
> > countershaft sprocket size, and it was stock; but I don't remember seeing
> > mention of the tooth count on the rear of your Passport? Perhaps the PO had
> > some steep hills in their area and went a little taller to compensate, or
> > did a little trail riding as well?>
> > > You're going to have a well sorted bike when you
> > lick this problem. Keep at it!>
> > > (Good viibes being sent in your general
> > direction.)>
> > > John H.
> > > Omaha
> > >
> > > --- In Hon
> > da-C70@yahoogroups.com, "A"
> > wrote:> >
> > > > Two more thing came to mind.
> > > > Throttle should not have more than 5mm play
> > at grip flange.> > Clutch should fully engage and not slip. At
> > no point in the past should the bike have been subjected to EC slippery
> > oils.> >
> > > > --- In Hon
> > da-C70@yahoogroups.com, "A"
> > wrote:> > >
> > > > > I want to add that fresh air should
> > hit engine to keep it cool.> > >
> > > > > --- In Hon
> > da-C70@yahoogroups.com, "A"
> > wrote:> > > >
> > > > > > My two cents:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Full tire pressure.
> > > > > > Not thick engine oil. Functioning
> > oil pump.> > > > Brakes and chain adjusted and
> > proper sprockets.> > > > Good petrol.
> > > > > > Clean air filter and
> > carb.> > > > Good tuning.
> > > > > > Smooth level road.
> > > > > > No head wind.
> > > > > > Tight sitting posture.
> > > > > > Removing anything which adds air
> > drag.> > > >
> > > > > > These should increase speed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Hon
> > da-C70@yahoogroups.com, "cayman2653"
> > wrote:> > > > >
> > > > > > > I am about to loose my mind
> > trying to solve this problem and need some help. My bike has a new piston,
> > rings, cylinder, carb, clutch, cam chain and most tensioner parts and it
> > runs good at low speed. The carb is adjusted so there is no bogging at all
> > and the idle is very slow and smooth. The cam timing is right, the
> > ignition timing is slightly advanced ( it seems to run better like this
> > )from the F mark and the point gap is correct. The valve clearance is set
> > at 0.002in per the manuel. The bike feels like it has power in first and
> > second gears and will accellerate to the shift marks on the speedometer.
> > In third gear it runs right up to 32-35 mph and will go no higher. I have
> > played with the timing until I am blue in the face and nothing seems to
> > make much difference in the performance. When the new carb was installed I
> > removed the fuel tank and cleaned it out good, replaced the fuel lines and
> > adjusted the carb. Rechecked the carb for> main jet size yesterday. I could not find any
> > numbers on the jet so I installed the stock Honda carbs main jet. This did
> > seem to make the power level feel stronger but did not help the top speed
> > any. Also checked the slide to confirm it does open all the way and the
> > needle is set in the middle slot. Float level was checked and found to be
> > about 1/8" low; reset to Honda spec's. Does anyone have a guess what
> > could be the problem?> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]>
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]>
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > C70 Passport Not Running Right?
> > 1970-73 C70 Honda Service Manual: http://tinyurl.com/6ebwtw1970-73 C70 Troubleshooting Guide:
> > http://tinyurl.com/6ebwtw (scroll to sec.7.1 page
> > 101.jpg)1980-83 C70 Honda Service Manual: http://tinyurl.com/hu42c1980-81 C70 Troubleshooting Guide:
> > http://tinyurl.com/hu42c (scroll to sec.18-1 page
> > 170.jpg)1982-83 C70 Troubleshooting Guide:
> > http://tinyurl.com/hu42c (scroll to sec. 20-28 page
> > 205.jpg)
> > 1980-81 C70 Maintenance Schedule: http://tinyurl.com/z4zn61982-83 C70 Maintenance Schedule: http://tinyurl.com/hw35c
> > More resources for C70 Passports and Cubs:
> > http://www.shlaes.com/Vehicles/Scooter.htmhttp://www.velodrome.com/HondaC70/HondaC70.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Honda-C70/
> > Your email settings:
> > Individual Email | Traditional
> >
> > To change settings online go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Honda-C70/join(Yahoo! ID required)
> >
> > To change settings via email:
> > Honda-C70-digest@yahoogroups.com Honda-C70-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Honda-C70-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
1970-73 C70 Honda Service Manual: http://tinyurl.com/6ebwtw
1970-73 C70 Troubleshooting Guide:
http://tinyurl.com/6ebwtw (scroll to sec.7.1 page 101.jpg)
1980-83 C70 Honda Service Manual: http://tinyurl.com/hu42c
1980-81 C70 Troubleshooting Guide:
http://tinyurl.com/hu42c (scroll to sec.18-1 page 170.jpg)
1982-83 C70 Troubleshooting Guide:
http://tinyurl.com/hu42c (scroll to sec. 20-28 page 205.jpg)
1980-81 C70 Maintenance Schedule: http://tinyurl.com/z4zn6
1982-83 C70 Maintenance Schedule: http://tinyurl.com/hw35c
More resources for C70 Passports and Cubs:
http://www.shlaes.com/Vehicles/Scooter.htm
http://www.velodrome.com/HondaC70/HondaC70.html
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